TheBiologySpace.BioBlog

Well what an interesting point that the guru has. disgusting but true wow never thought about that fergy ferg. i have another question regarding that for the classes; its random but ill shoot anyway: If someone had a supernumeriary (third nipple) can you lactate from it?

WoW what an interesting topic indeed i agree with alot of things that are being said in the blog and as i said earlier there are a good number of moral aspects to go along with this topic. but the question i have for the congregation is what if some day you make the decision to have kids and they grow up and they want to make the same decisions as this thing did. how would you react? how would you handle the situation?

Just the day before I heard about this pregnant “man”, I actually stumbled on this story, about a man in India who was pregnant (not technically exactly pregnant). It’s a similar case (a man being pregnant), but doesn’t involve a sex change. It’s very rare and interesting.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2346476&page=1

First of all, I think this is absolutely wrong. What kind of psychological effects will this have on the child? The child could end up killing him/herself. This is a selfish decision by the parents.
Second of all, it is wrong of the media to (and the parents to let the media) make the whole situation public to where the whole country knows about it. The child won’t ever be able to live a normal life or at least keep secret how they came into the world. The whole country will know and the child will probably be the center of attention (in a bad way) wherever he/she goes.
Third, if “Thomas” wanted to have a baby in the future (and not adopt it), why get a sex change? I mean if he wanted to get a sex change, having to adopt a baby was the least price he should have had to pay.

When i watched Oprah about him he said int he beggining of the show that he had always felt like a boy and assoiciated with them and all, and thats fine. Okay so thats why he became as much man he can with today’s science. But then at the middle and at the end of the show he said that he feels like he wants to become a mother, hey im a guy, and I never feel that, sure id want to have kids, but not be a mother. If he wants to become a mother than how does he feel like a man. I think he’s just confused.

This paragraph made me think is it fair for him to be having a kid. I mean is him having a kid in the best interrest for the kid. If he has a kid with multiple disorders and dieseases, then is it in the best interest for the kid. Or is it just him trying to make a point and all that. If the kid gets multiple cancers, and he was warned about this then i believe it to very selfish that he is having a kid after 10 years of testorone shots.

Yes i watched this guy on oprah with Mrs. Ferg, and to me he looks like a man sure, but is still is a woman. Thats what I think anyways. I say this because he still has his female parts, and never got them removed, thus he is still like he was when he was a female. So how is he male if he never got his parts removed. I think its different and i don’t care if he wants to do it, but technically he is still a woman.

Yeah, I don’t understand how one can be legally one gender or another either… If some testosterone and some surgery can make someone change gender in the eyes of the government, something is messed up. But I also think that people should respect his decision to be a man, because that is how he sees himself. To me, it means nothing that he is legally male, but that he identifies as male.

think this kid will be like the kids that were adopted by lesbian couples. the kid will be confused of gender roles and the pyschcologist will follow him all the days of his life. i just think its wrong. i think they will be better ff with adopting

I agree with Brigham, the fact that Beatie is legally a man but has female genitals and lacks a Y chromosome is really confusing. The only real thing that would even be close to considering her for a man is that she has been on 10 years of testostorone treatments.

Well Beatie choosing to have this surgery is kind of weird to me, but you know what I’m not here to judge. I’m still kind of confused on how if Beatie still has woman sexual reproductive organs and still be legally a man. But if Beatie wants to have child no one should be able to stop her, just because the child’s parents won’t be considered normal by society that doesn’t change that fact that they would be any worse parents then the regular man woman couple.

One more thing…if the couple didnt want media attention like they claimed, they wouldnt have brought in the media themselves. They would have gone to a secluded place to have the baby. It could have been kept under wraps,

I dont get how she can be considered a “he” when she doesnt possess a Y chromosome or primary sexual characteristics. It doesnt make sense. She didnt have anything constructed….only hormones added. Even though I sound crass saying it…I believe she just resembles a fuzzy, steriod-laden women.

I too believe that there be birth deficiencies but, what if there is something positive out of this birth. What if the baby, even with defects, have some resistances or favorable attributes that a typical person might not have. It think it is possible because this is an unorthodox pregnancy. Anything could happen.

Ethics of the pregnancy itself aside, and of course assuming that the child is born without any significant mental or physical handicaps, I would like to expound on the psychological situation for the kid. What we have then is a radical (radical as in new not bad) departure from the orthodox family unit. How does this affect the dynamics of raising a kid? Role reversal type scenarios have been discussed here, but what about the kid’s belief set? How will he/she integrate into a still predominantly straight society when their first opinions are shaped so differently? Will the parents raise he/she to be transexual/gay/lesbian, or will they allow he/she to have the choice they had?

i dont really no what to sa. but i think i have the same opinion as some of my fellow class mates . i will wait and see about the gender roles in the family and how the kid is doing. but i am suprised that how much medical technology can do. bu the think that confuses me isnt he going to breast milk or at least the hormones that triggers it. isnt there going to conflicts on hormones

thomas did look like a guy and he had facial hair. i did some research on youtube and i found the interview i tink its ok to post it here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ61u2jeQhE
im not a big fan of Oprah but she did a good job on the interview.

I think that even though Beatie is legally male, the possession of female genitals and two X chromosomes shouldn’t allow for the ability to have the legal title of “male”. It makes zero sense in my mind and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who thinks the same way.

I just think that it is highly irregular and highly unethical for this occurance to take place. I mean, although Beatie is technically and legally male, he’s biologically female. This should rule out the ability for him to have children, especially with the health ramifications that it may have on the child with the testosterone treatments that Beatie has been recieiving for said ten years. I just think that if they wanted a child so bad, they should have just adopted.

I also agree that man is playing the Gods role her. but thats not what i want to talk about. i was wonderin how much money did she or tell me her a he spend to be a man. how much trouble did he go through to change his gender and the think that amazes me is he got a wife. no more questions or explainations

I can’t imagine growing up in a home as confused as this one will be. My dad has always been..my dad. He works and provides for the family as a traditional father does. My mom cleans, makes meals, and takes care of motherly things. I believe that we have kept these roles since the beginning of mankind for a reason. We fit best into the roles we have, not that woman can’t work and men can’t cook. But men are physically and emotionally better equipped for the provider postition, and women for the caretaker position.

Agreed with above. The technology that is available now-a-days is amazingly extraordinary and mindblowing all in one. However, at the same time, I don’t understand how anyone could have the gall to do that sort of thing to themselves and then go public with the story as though it were some sort of publicity stunt in the first place. I find it highly disturbing that this “man” would become pregnant and endanger the childs psychological well being later in life.

This reminds me of all the talk I heard from people after they heard about the pregnant “man.” I remember telling someone that he was still genetically and biologically female. The amount of press and attention that this has recieved is similar to that of many changes in our world. One thing happens that some people agree with, and others follow. I imagine other transgender men will try to have children and before long, pregnant men won’t be as rare of a sight.

I’m all for this couple having a child, I’m just afraid that with Thomas Beatie’s eggs being exposed to estrogen for a period of ten years will result with the child having birth defects. As I said before, the birth of this child will set a precedent for other couples in the same position. If this birth doesn’t work out, protestors will argue that “people” like Beatie and his wife are causing harm to a potential child. In a way there is a lot of pressure on this couple.

I was wondering if there are any studies of females who have taken large doses of testosterone and had a pregnancy-if their children had any deffects. I understand that these circumstances are very odd, but I’m just curious as to how the baby will be affected biologically.

i partially agree with isha and her point in that this is beyond science and there are not only physical aspects to this situation but that of moral values too. This is going to sound wierd but i am all about freedom of choice thats what this nations all about so if it wants to be a girl be a girl if it wants to be a boy be a boy just know i am against that but not there choice. stephen out

I agree. I think that technology is amazing in the sense that we are able to change what god has created us. Man almost in a sense has equviliant powers to God, they are creating life in a sense. Not really life, but they are creating man from woman and vice versa. Who ever would have thought that was possible. And to not be able to tell at all.

Some of the big initial questions that pop up in my mind are is the wife considered gay? How is the “husband” really considered a husband if he’s still biologically a woman? How will that affect the child to know their “dad” gave birth to them? Of course, i am a supporter of people doing what makes them happy in life and not letting anything hold them back, but this is just a strange situation. If I were the trans-gender individual, I don’t know if I would want to risk my child being born with something wrong with them as a result of the testosterone injections. Regardless of whichever side people choose to stand on regarding this matter, this is definitely proof for strides in science in the modern world.

I agree with most of those who say that Beatie is still a female, what I don’t understand is what qualifies someone to be able to say they are male if they are female or vise versa according to the government. Just because she had superficial changes to her body, it does not mean she’s not a woman anymore.Setting all science aside, I think that whoever truly desires children has the right to have them no matter if they are different. Her not feeling like a woman doesn’t make her any less of a mother.. or father.. whatever it is!

This is interesting. In my opinion Beatie is still a female because, genetically speaking, she is. However, the treaments she has been getting over the last ten years have likely damaged her eggs. Overall on the situation I believe it is a little bizarre to see what is happening. However, I believe she does have a right to do what she is doing. If later, however, it is found that the hormones she has been taking results in birth defects or other abnormalities, then it should not be allowed later.

Should they be allowed to have a child? Duh…everyone is entitled to their own choices. Is it morally correct? Thats a whole different ballfield. Yes, there is the argument that they will most likely be more caring and nurturing to their child than a vast amount of unqualified parents are. However, what about the childs state of mind?
OK, imagine it is “show and tell” day in school. Little Jimmie walks up to the class…”what did you bring to show us today Jimmie?” the teacher inquires. “Well,” pronounced Jimmie (puffing out his chest) “I brought myself. See, Mrs. Fergie, my DAD gave birth to me!”
Awkward.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the “mother and child” connection. Who is the mother? Beatie is the biological mother so I guess that the baby would have a tendency to bonf with him/her but, Nancy is going to be breast feeding. I am guessing this has to affect the child somehow. And what ever it is. it is not good.

Another interesting thing I am wondering about is whether there will be after effects concerning Beatie He/she pretty much went back and forth between being a man and a woman. How could this affect he/she….?

Beatie is still in my opinion, a female. She just had breast tissue removed and took hormones to adapt facial hair to look more like a male. I also believe the couple are lesbians. Beatie kept her female organs and underwent the process of vitro fertilization.

I watched that episode of Oprah, and seeing Thomas Beatie, I was really surprised. I’m not sure what I was imaging he would look like but he didn’t look like how I imagined (if that makes sense). He was just awkward looking because he definitely looks like a man but just with a ‘baby bump’. It’s definitely very interesting to see how his pregnancy will progress. Personally, I would not have risked the health and safety of the child made from an egg that has been exposed to all the chemicals and hormones Beatie has taken. In my opinion, any chance of an increased risk of developing certain cancers should have deterred the couple considerably; though I respect what they are doing in regards to forwarding and championing gay rights. I guess we’ll just have to wait until July when the baby is born.

No, he wouldn’t. When he had breast reduction, the surgeons also did a reconstruction as well which involved moving and replacing the nipple of each breast so that they would appear to be more centered. I would assume that the mammary glands were damaged or even perhaps removed.

It is possible that his wife could breast feed. She could produce the hormones needed for her to be able to do this. All that would be needed is mechanical stimulation of the breast (by the baby suckling) to stimulate milk production. It’s the same idea as wet nurses–back in the day, the wealthy and royals would hire a young girl (who may not have necessarily ever been pregnant) to breastfeed their babies. The simple repetitive mechanical stress placed on the nipple is enough to stimulate milk production in some women (by a reflex action).

What I’d like to know is whether or not Beatie would still be able to breast feed the child, or would his wife do it for him? Just because the wife had a hysterectomy doesn’t mean that she can’t produce milk – all she needs are the right horomones in the right doses.

So if Beatie had his breast’s removed than would the mammar glands still secrete milk after birth? Or would the stimulation of milk be stopped? Because if it was just the tissue removed, with the help of hormones, could it be possible to breast feed the child? Or perhaps pump the milk?

I think that the risk of having such side effects due to the testosterone hormones should be a cue to the couple that having children would not be in their best interest. This child will not only have psychgolocial issues to worry about but potentially harmful side effects because its “father”/”mother” took injections. I don’t believe that it is fair to the baby. I think that the couple perhaps should have though about adoption

This is definitely a unique situation. While not the typical orthodox family I wouldn’t really have a problem with these to individuals raising the a child as long as they took good care of it. As ethan already said there are many typical couples out there that do a horrible job of raising the kids. However their are many unknown variables to this equation. While not a complete expert on the female anatomy a find it fascinating that he has carried the fetus so long after receiving the testosterone injections. This could be damaging just to him and the child. I have no problem with these to raising children, however because of all the unknown factors I have second thoughts about them being allowed to give birth to a child.

If there is a notable surge of pregnancy among transgendered males due to the (successful) birth of Beatie’s child, and enough studies are collected to show a correlation between the chance of cancer and traces of the testosterone hormone, then this may well be the begining of a moral and ethical battle.

Wow. I’m looking forward to this.

This is the most humorous coincidence ever! That you post about the possibilities of males being able to become pregnant over time, and a transgendered male does just that.

Well, this is a fun read. But he planned for the pregnancy, and as a transgendered male, I’ve got to say that I’m not incredibly shocked. As long as the ol’ ovary and uterus are still hanging around and he’s got supplemenatl hormones… there’s no reason why he can’t give bith.

However, didn’t this particular transgendered man remove his breasts? Is the amount of nourishment available by breastfeeding connected to or related to the fact whether the person has bosoms at all?

I can see the family’s stance to why they would want Beatie to carry the child since the female cannot, however it puzzles me that the couple does not have the biological concerns that parents should have. With Beatie’s eggs constantly exposed to testosterone wouldnt the couple be concerned with the health of the child? Despite the ethical concerns that this case raises, I believe that is up to the couple themselves.

well obviously since Beatie had been taking supplements such as testosterone to induce the male qualities that were wished to be possessed, one must wonder if the years of the eggs being exposed to such rashly different amounts of opposite hormones would not damage the egg or possibly have the potential to damage the fetus.

Psychologically the child will have many problems growing up especially if it is born with birth defects as well. Having its birth so heavily publicized will not be healthy for him or her socially. This is not an even that will be easily forgotten.

I agree there is risk involved in this situation and that it is unfortunate that there is a lack of reserarch for it. I think that the baby will have brith defects but hopefully they wont be as severe as cancer.

The human body is remarkable. As a man, Beatie can be who he wants and as a woman he is given a second chance to bring new life into this world. I hope their child is healthy and happy, but it might be hard for it to cope with the reality of his lineage.

It amazes me how people today take what god gave them for granted but it also pleases me that they are willing to explore their sexuality freely. I think that this mans decision to fulfill the role he was orignally given as a woman to have this child is one that should be respected and admired.

Oh….wow. This is an extremely controversial topic. I mean, there are going to be people on opposite ends of the spectrum here. There are people that will be for and against it. I’m hopelessly lost somewhere in there.

It’s a miracle that Beatie’s carried the fetus for so long after having taken the testostorone for most of her life, right? Like you said in paragraph 7, the eggs she still had would be affected by any drugs that he/she took. It will be interesting to see the effects in the child once it is delivered. I’d love to see that. A man giving birth. Biologically speaking, Beatie is still a female, but the government sees her as a male. It’s just…different. Then again, the world has changed so much since the times where this would be seen as the devil’s work. I mean, there’s cloning and all sorts of other things that no one would have ever dreamed of.

The other part of me is conservative Christian. Part of me says that this is wrong on so many different levels. I was taught that there are specific roles males and females play during their lifetimes, so something like this goes against all teachings of the Bible and God.

I believe that s/he should be able to carry their child in peace and that the child should not be treated any differently because of the decisions that its parents made. As for Beatie, I don’t agree with his/her decisions about certain things, but that’s a completely different topic.

i think that if they want to have the child like this that is their right as long as they protect and love and nurture the child. i mean some parents that are normal (man and woman) should not be parents due to negelct and inability to care for the child. as long as the parents try their best i think it should be possible for them to have the child. however the child may be affected by the testosterone that the “father” had been taking. wheather or not this will cuase damage to the genes of the eggs will have to be told at a later date. but it will be interesting to see how this story unfolds.