TheBiologySpace.BioBlog

I find it interesting that viruses continue to find a way to outsmart science. Although I readily see and accept the validity of antigen shifting, one would think that if we must continually be vaccinated for the flu, why are we continually vaccinated for other viral infections? Another point that peaks my interest is memory cells. If we keep having the receive different flu shots for different strains, how do our immune system’s memory cells able to recall all of the different types and isn’t there a point were older memory cells become not useful?

I had the flu or something close to it when we were learning about the immune system, even though I’d gotten a flu shot. It was interesting to think about what could have caused it: had the virus shifted its antigens already in that short period of time, or since it came up very fast and only lasted a few days, was it a secondary immune response due to my shot. Can viruses shift their antigens in that short amount of time? Or do you think it was the shot working?

I think that the main reason that this process happens in non living things is a means of survival. Viruses need a host to live off of and in order to do so they must find a way to trick the immune system to not recognize their chemical make-up. The only thing that surprises me is that wouldn’t, overtime, our body be expossed to so many different antigens of one virus that the memory antibodies would start to put pieces of the visus antigen together? Would they not have some sort of common anitgen protein sequence that the body would be begin to recognize?
Personally I hate the flu shot, i get sick every year after i get it, so I’ve decided to not get the past two years and they have been the only two years i have not had the flu

Viruses perform antigen shifting because they too have genetic material, so while they are not living, they are still active when inside a host. And about origins of life, I strongly believe that viruses were around long before living cells. I remember reading the book and it said that molecules spontaneously formed microbiological material that eventually evolved and became larger living tissue. If this is true, then spontaneously forming something that is not living is simpler because it is not as complex. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that viruses originated before living organisms.

Perhaps eventually antigen shifting might become a more serious problem. Its a good thing we get shots every year. Hopefully the scientific world can keep up with this virus and its activities.

Being able to shift our genomes could prove to be very adventageous for any species. WIth this ability the body could protect itself from disease and possible make organ transplants easier and successful.

I believe viruses have been around before human cells because they have developed characteristics that make it hard for human cells to defeat. If human cells came first they probably would not have let most viruses stand a chance at survival. I agree with Kaitlin’s point about memory cells being capable of recalling all of the various viruses that enter the body.

since viruses are microrganisms and live in a much smaler world this trait could have developed in order for them to be able to enter host cells. it is a smart move to make expecially if the body is already on the lookout for you so you change your desguise and hide in such a way so they can’t find you to get rid of you.

This antigen shifting trait could have defiantly evolved in order to enter host cells. However I believe that it is highly unlikely that viruses existed before living things because they must occupy a host cell in order to live and reproduce. If there is nothing living then there is nothing they can use to reproduce.

The ability to change genomes to survive in a given environment is certainly a benefit to the virus doing it. It ensures that that virus won’t be eliminated by the current vaccine. This would mean scientists have to be constantly developing new vaccines but at the same time that virus population wouldn’t have a stable genome because not all individuals will have the same genetic make up. Well, they reproduce asexually anyway so I guess it wouldn’t really matter in that regard.

I disagree. I think that it is logical that lviing cells came first. Viruses rely on living cells to replicate. Unless there was some physical process that made viruses at a rate necessary to sustain their ‘population’ I seriously doubt that the virus came before the cell. The viruses probably gained this ability after their ‘introduction’ to the population of liviing and nonliving things. They can keep outsmarting our immune systems and even technology because of their rapid rate of replication. When, or before, our cells come up with ways to deal with the viruses they ‘evolve’ (it would be easier to talk about these viruses if they were actually alive). So…viruses are awesome, except for the killing and infecting part.

Perhaps there are patterns in this antigens shifting and all the different antigens have something common. Perhaps they can use the DNA to find out how the antigens will be. This could really be helpful in treating malaria and for a permanent flu shot. Also, the way viruses have such adaptations shows that you probably don’t have to be alive necessarily to have natural selection. As long as a certain trait increases its own chance of being reproduced.

My biggest question is how viruses came about. Since they’re very different from cells in that they never actually live or die, how were they created? I couldn’t pin an opinion one way or another on whether viruses came about before or after cells did. Also, like Kaitlin said, why aren’t we told to actively become immune to other viruses? Is it perhaps that the flu is the most common seasonal virus?

While someone said antigen-shifting is probably an evolution of viruses, I don’t see how viruses could evolve if they were never living in the first place-just a thought.

I believe that antigen shifting did develop as a mean to which survival of certain genomic elements evolved, but that doesn’t advocate that viruses were around long before living cells were. Maybe viruses came around during the same time living cells did or after, but not before. Why? Well viruses need a living host for them to insert their genetic material, thus without a host cell, or in other words a living cell, there would be no activation of the virus. After reading the article the first thing I thought, just like everybody else, was about the memory cells and how after time wouldn’t the memory cells hold bits and fragments of the various viruses of antigens together and realize that viruses hold the trait of antigen shifting (I saw that Andrea also brought up this point)? I do feel that antigen shifting did develop as a mean by which survival of certain genomic elements. But what if the antigen shifting occurred at a very slow rate such as genetic drift? Then would it be as effective in insuring the survival of a species. If a viruses; which only need a host cell to be activated so that it could insert its genetic material and reproduce; caught up with a species that had the ability to shuffle it’s genome, does that automatically mean that the survival of that species in an environment that does not favor genomic stability is insured? It would seem that the two don’t correlate.

I wonder how they would be able to develop an all encompasing vaccine, or if its even possible. Would you be able to have a vaccine that contains more than one type of a virus? Or would that just be dangerous to the organism that is recieving the vaccine and negating the effects of the vaccine altogether?

I think this actually happened this year, because my sister came home with the flu and then passed it to me, and then to my father, but he had recieved the vaccination for the flu earlier in the year, so that means that the strain he was vaccinated against wasn’t the strain that he got, but a different one with differnet antigens.
I found that interesting.

One point I’m still debating in my mind is the idea that viruses came before cells. If they were created before cells, how were they created? If they were created after cells, why did they do so? Viruses are a bit of a haze for me, however, one thing is clear. They are multiplying, cell destroying, survival driven, annoyances, in many cases. What scares me is the fact that viruses such as HIV, which we haven’t been able to find a cure for thus far, can take on antigen shifting. Now that would be disastrous.

Shifting antigens makes it much easier for the virus to enter a host cell, with out causing much alarm in the body. This also makes the job for scientists much harder, they will have to keep on making new vaccines,or atleast do enough research to find a way vaccinate a person against a virus through all of its diffrent antigens. I highly doubt that viruses were here long before living cells, because only way a virus could survive is if its feeding off of a host cell, and there is no way that viruses could have been around before living organisms

stand by for a new idea…wait for it…ok: what if viruses were originally alive, developed the antigen shifting ability through natural selection, were now able to survive in host organisms, thus the ability to sustain their own life became a “vestigal ability” if you will, and they lost it. Now we have these zombie ancestors of the original virus ancestors. This hypothesis also gives a point to viruses before cells.

This is more or less REALLY HILARIOUS!

I was wondering, though. I do concur with Jocelyne’s statement about antigen shifting becoming a danger. I mean, if the shift roughly once a year…I’m thinking, might’nt something develop, maybe like a mutation or…something. Something that allows antigen shifting to occur more frequently…? I mean. that would really reall…suck.

And if that were to happen (i’m stepping unto really theoretical/delusional grounds here), how would we combat it. There is already a rousing lack of flu vaccines as it is…

I too, doubt that viruses were around before living cells, because as they are unable to survive without a host, it is improbable that they would have evolved prior to the living cells that serve as their host. I believe that antigen shifting is a useful trait because it allows the virus to continue living within its host longer, and continue to reproduce. I believe that antigen shifting probably evolved in certain viruses because the environment with which they were faced was dangerous; however, since not all viruses exhibit this trait, I think that probably these viruses, such as the ones responsible for malaria and the flu, were forced to shift antigens to survive, and that these viruses became the only strain of the virus available, through natural selection.

Viruses may very well be the founding of life on the planet. Non-living genetic matter which evolved into the complex life-forms of today. However, to my knowledge, viruses can only reproduce by infecting living organisms causing them to mutate. How could they have come first if there was no way for them to reproduce? Maybe living cells first developed alongside viruses, while the enzymes created by the viruses caused mutations which eventually led to the variety of species.